The technical difficulties of trying to write on this phone have killed all my joy of writing.
One of the best pieces I have ever written was deleted; it won’t let me edit ( intolerable for me), even what I actually wrote in this piece inexplicably disappeared just now.
It’s enough to make me not only want to throw my phone out the window but also bite chunks out of my fist and send that ruddy and spurting out there as well.
I have progressed to the walking frame, which is painful and difficult ( I am now questioning the wisdom of having both legs done at the same time: the 95% of people who had one only are already out of here whereas I am plodding on, step by step, one of the crazed 5%).
I am not bored. Films, physio, reading, visits,… but I do wish I could just uninhibitedly write…
Can’t take the food any more.
H A T E rice and white bread. Just can’t stomach it. And the smell of the soup.
Poor grumpy Mr. Ginza!! I’m so sorry. :- I can imagine how this hospital stay us getting old now. Can’t you have a laptop while you’re there (do you have one?). It would certainly make writing easier while you’re there. Today is Easter Sunday, and I’m sending you my best wishes for a beautiful, blessed (belated) Easter. ♡ What are you wearing? I’m wearing Joy, predictably. I’ve been wanting something new and modern, but also one I won’t get tired of after two wearings, and also it must be mainstream enough to find it here in the back of beyond. Hnh. That’s why I just wear Joy. 🙂 Keep your chin up. I would have done both knees, too, rather than one at a time. I wouldn’t want to have to do it twice. Hang in there. I’ll bet you’re getting stronger each day. Lots of love.
I have a laptop but no internet in the room: my iPhone just about works but there is something wrong with it and it’s driving me to distraction. Theoretically I could write and save things for later but that’s not me. I’m all about living in the moment and trying to capture and express that. Things written two weeks ago and then posted wouldn’t work for me.
Reblogging old posts is different because I sometimes feel like dipping into different moods as though the pieces were like records in a jukebox, and some people miss them the first time around.
Anyway, feeling fed up and frustrated. I am of course doing well considering I have had THE hardest operation of them all for knees: closed wedge high tibial osteotomies. I should have had a lobotomy while I was at it and then I’d be happy as Larry.
Sorry I have a strong predilection for horror films and the more macabre side of things as well as all the joy and the light- very yin/ yang: all the other perfume blogs do the nice and polite thing: I plough my own depths, and this rather horrifying photo of myself kept me chuckling to myself one solitary night.
Have you tried attaching your phone to your laptop? My phone service data provider allows me to use my iPhone as a personal hotspot. If you have unlimited data, it’s a wonderful thing. If you don’t, you can write / edit offline, connect, then copy and paste to WordPress.
Basically, your iPhone becomes your personal internet service provider. Just follow the steps to set it up first and then, once done, you can connect to the Internet using your laptop by connecting to your iPhone either wirelessly, via Bluetooth or by connecting your laptop to your iPhone using the Lightning / USB cable (the removable cord attached to the plug adapter). My cell phone carrier is Verizon and my data plan allows me to use my iPhone as such.
Sounds like some aspects of your daily existence suck right now. I’m sorry that they do. I hope you might find a way to see your choice in having both knees done at the same time as the right choice based on your own wisdom and self-knowledge. There was, as you had described, a lot of torment going into it, a fair bit of mental anguish in the anticipation and the related fear. You don’t have to repeat that, and it might have been even worse the second time around.
I mention this because Ric had one leg (re-routing the large artery) done in March and is having the the other done next month. It’s just served to double (repeat) the pre-op agro and angst. Perhaps more so, because he knows exactly what he’s in for in terms of post-op pain and the sheer crumminess of being in the hospital. For various reasons, it was the best choice medically, but there has been that significant trade-off for sure.
The parallels might not be identical, but there it is, for what it might be worth.
Not fun to see the 95% have their freedom so quickly. Quick math says you’ll be in far, far more than twice as long?! Argh. A bit on the frustrating side. To say the least. Anyway, sending you the very best wishes.
This deeply correct and intuitive advice ( though I feel very much for Ric ), is the very very best thing I could be reading right now and I truly thank you for it . xxx
Could you try a dictaphone? You can get some that plug into the computer and transcribe what you’ve just said; that way you get a double record and you can edit it later. Sorry to hear it’s tough-going. Keep raging through it; you’ll get there. I think it’s quite common to get really angry when you’re heading for the third week into recuperation. It’s the body and mind reclsiming its adrenalin. Keep expressing the rage and it’ll pass. It means you’re nearly ready to go home. Not long now x
The Madonna Top 50 was a happy distraction though yesterday. I’m in the mood for the apparent banality of lists ( which actually are like very stimulating, pondering, wondering time travel for the mind).
As Robin says above, the whole two legs or one is the problem. And the suppression of claustrophobia. When I wheelchaired past the brightly lit ward rooms last night with each bed curtained up like the satanic crib in Rosemary’s Baby, each patient lying there motionless and breathing silently, I began to feel my throat closing over again even though I had the ‘sanctuary’ of my own room to return to ( thank god for open windows and lamps from home: their lights would drive me to suicide).
I think what you say though about adrenaline is right though. And not being able to use it sufficiently. I’ve been in here four weeks now! No wonder I’m getting a bit ratty.
At least your sense of humor is still intact. Even though it had to be traumatic to have both knees done at the same time, I think that once you are close to full recovery you will be happy with your decision and hopefully in a couple of months this will all be a blurred memory. I can understand how frustrating it is to type anything long and detailed on an iPhone or any phone, having had the same result you had more than once. I now try to limit the length of anything I write on my phone. Something I do when I am in a bad situation is keep repeating to myself “this too shall pass”. It kind of works for me. Wishing you a successful recovery.
That day in particular, when I had been in the finest writer’s trance the entire day only to see it all extinguished at the touch of a button, was so internal organ-compressingly infuriating that it obliterated all desire to do anything for a few days and I became as apathetic as a used mop.
There is of course the fact that I am the only foreigner in a 100% Japanese environment. A lot of me thrills to the total immersion of this : it is an indelible experience and I have nothing but praise for the hospital- but at the same time it can be a bit wearing. I yearn for some filthy raucous humour or just some delicious cheddar cheese and baguette. The food is high quality and very nutritionally balanced but it is still beginning to SICKEN me. I find myself dreading mealtimes.
Surely you’ve been through enough to reward yourself with your own laptop! Don’t know how you can bear to share one anyway. Go for it – writing in the way you normally do will make you feel more normal. You might even be able to find some filthy raucous humour on t’internet…
D is using both the main computer and the laptop; with two iPhones in the house as well that’s usually more than sufficient. Any more and I would feel like Jason Bourne.
You are right though and know me well: creativity = happiness; otherwise I just turn into a poisoned slug.
How frustrating – pen and paper and then type it up if you want to? At least that way you can’t lose it for good. Hope walking is easier soon. Do you have an expected time for discharge or does it depend on progress? Love the picture…
Poor you! I do wish there was more we could do to cheer you up.How long before they will release you? or does this depend on physio progress?
sending Welsh cwtches. Sam x
No I have cheered up already a bit actually. Just putting this up helped.
As you say, everything depends on the physio, which is going relatively well: I just hate looking and feeling either like a giant adult baby in my ‘stroller’ or else a mangled ancient taking ‘steps’ with such pathetic trepidation..
Aww, you remind me of my son when he was 12 months old. He fell over many times but he got the hang of it. Hope you do it without all the falling over. xx
I think writing on paper would be a good solution- then you could take an iPhone photo of it and post it here. Like letters to us, your readers. I feel selfish writing that because we should be sending letters to you
When are you going to be released? I hope soon. Despite the hardships, you seem to be getting on quite well. I have been watching a lot of BBC series lately, and it seems that an overriding trait of most of the characters is a resilience that pushes them to face the day. Oh, how the nurses on “Call the Midwife” inspire me. And don’t get me started on the detectives on “Broadchurch.” I’m a serious fanboy, planning a trip to Dorset. I have needed the diversion from all these series because I’m getting clean. Cold turkey is the only way for me. It’s hard. But I rewarded myself with a flea market bottle of Yvresse. It’s so unlike me, which is exactly why I bought it. It reminded me of Olivia De Havilland. She said the reason she decided to live in Paris is because everything smelled of champagne and roses.
Anyway, I hope you can find the resilience inside of you.
It sounds like you need it more than me, David : good luck ( love the irony of battling an addiction with a perfume called drunkenness by the way, but I can imagine that once you get past the sugar neon lychees there is enough decadent chypre goodness to sweeten your days).
I hope you know what you are doing and that going cold turkey is not dangerous. Be strong but not too reckless! Dorset would be a good place to retreat though. Beautiful lush and green and somehow apart from everywhere else.
I was in hospital recently.only for a short time but I know exactly how you feel.. once the novelty of being waited on hand and foot and having no mundane daily domestic chores to do wears off it all becomes very tedious. The first meal I had in there was delicious after that the meals were all down hill and dont get me started on the cups of tea.. one trolley lady even gave it to me with the teabag still in it .. and the disgusting cheap coffee. then there is all the ward politics that start to become evident.. can you get out for wee breaks? After a few days I was allowed out in the day time for a couple of hours morning and afternoon.. it made all the difference…. . having meals bought in or sent in might help… there must be some place around there that would do that .. one day you will look back on this experience fondly In the meantime practice Gratitude.. every day think of three things to be grateful for.. I saw on the telly last night that this practice has turned many lost lives around..lots of love and healing best wishes from NZ.. are you raking extra vitamin C to speed the healing process up???
I actually do feel very grateful for many things and am much more of a natural slob than you so am not actually bored. It’s been four weeks now though so obviously I have the off day. If I didn’t have a private room, earplugs, and sleeping pills, the possibility of murder might arise, but I do so it’s ok.
I was being a bit tongue in cheek with that comment! The practice of gratitude seems to be the latest feel good craze. Some people in that TV article had had the most dreadful things happen to them and had sunk to the pits of despair They were lifted out of that state by practising gratitude every day. It seems like such an easy thing to do and so easy to forget how much we have to be grateful for.
I must admit that although being grateful for what you have is important, when it becomes a craze like that my skeptical antennae start wiggling about furiously
OK – I know you are suffering but your blog post is hilarious. Sorry to laugh. Your predicament sounds unendurable to me. Not moving with crappy food. Damn. And you cannot write your blog. Double damn. It is not so difficult to use your phone as a hot spot. Or whatever it is called. I have managed this myself. I hope you can try that at least. I barely know you but I sincerely feel your predicament. Are you able to enjoy your Shalimar? I love the pic though I did not get the manray, but now you point it out – thumbs way up. Try to get some glutathione in you to heal the mitochondria!
Of the Glutathione? Also I heard of remarkable recovery with electromagnetic field pulsation. I bet you can find that in Japan!
I first heard of glutathione from Dave Asprey who is a high performance guru type. Do you know of him? He has a podcast and blog and sells products. And he has several books, his newest is all about mitochondria. I am not scientifically literate enough to explain it. But I can understand the explanations which seem quite sound. But you can also get glutathione on Amazon for cheaper. If you try it, get the glutathione which dissolves in your mouth. That and maybe vitamin D and vitamin K2 might be helpful… Dave Asprey’s podcast is Bulletproof Radio. He interviews all the cutting edge healing people.
I love your entertaining style!
Goodness, the trials and tribulations you are going through. I am so sorry that your IPhone is acting up, that would have me just too frustrated to think straight. I am surprised to read you are to be leaving hospital in roughly two weeks, will you be mobile enough to be home? I do hope you will be writing again soon, I do enjoy the way you carry me along with your musings.
Wishing you all the best and glad to hear you are making progress in your recovery.
The technical difficulties of trying to write on this phone have killed all my joy of writing.
One of the best pieces I have ever written was deleted; it won’t let me edit ( intolerable for me), even what I actually wrote in this piece inexplicably disappeared just now.
It’s enough to make me not only want to throw my phone out the window but also bite chunks out of my fist and send that ruddy and spurting out there as well.
AAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGH
Anyway, an update.
I have progressed to the walking frame, which is painful and difficult ( I am now questioning the wisdom of having both legs done at the same time: the 95% of people who had one only are already out of here whereas I am plodding on, step by step, one of the crazed 5%).
I am not bored. Films, physio, reading, visits,… but I do wish I could just uninhibitedly write…
Can’t take the food any more.
H A T E rice and white bread. Just can’t stomach it. And the smell of the soup.
Poor grumpy Mr. Ginza!! I’m so sorry. :- I can imagine how this hospital stay us getting old now. Can’t you have a laptop while you’re there (do you have one?). It would certainly make writing easier while you’re there. Today is Easter Sunday, and I’m sending you my best wishes for a beautiful, blessed (belated) Easter. ♡ What are you wearing? I’m wearing Joy, predictably. I’ve been wanting something new and modern, but also one I won’t get tired of after two wearings, and also it must be mainstream enough to find it here in the back of beyond. Hnh.
That’s why I just wear Joy. 🙂 Keep your chin up. I would have done both knees, too, rather than one at a time. I wouldn’t want to have to do it twice. Hang in there. I’ll bet you’re getting stronger each day. Lots of love.
Hi Lilybelle and happy Easter.
I have a laptop but no internet in the room: my iPhone just about works but there is something wrong with it and it’s driving me to distraction. Theoretically I could write and save things for later but that’s not me. I’m all about living in the moment and trying to capture and express that. Things written two weeks ago and then posted wouldn’t work for me.
Reblogging old posts is different because I sometimes feel like dipping into different moods as though the pieces were like records in a jukebox, and some people miss them the first time around.
Anyway, feeling fed up and frustrated. I am of course doing well considering I have had THE hardest operation of them all for knees: closed wedge high tibial osteotomies. I should have had a lobotomy while I was at it and then I’d be happy as Larry.
Perfumes ( constantly being criticized by nurses about ‘aroma’ so have to keep it in check: Cologne Of Love by Eau Des Minimes- I got D to bring me another bottle in hospital, and a thing called Fabuleuse by Leonard which is like a gourmand Gucci Envy if you can imagine such a thing but it lingers nicely on my institutional pyjamas. If Envy is a supermodel feasting on wheatgrass, Fabuleuse is her shorter ( and much happier) older sister munching on Marrons GlacĂ©s
Do you like my pastiche of Man Ray by the way anyone
The picture was creepy and my first thought was “Big hairy eye bags! He must not be getting enough sleep.”
Sorry I have a strong predilection for horror films and the more macabre side of things as well as all the joy and the light- very yin/ yang: all the other perfume blogs do the nice and polite thing: I plough my own depths, and this rather horrifying photo of myself kept me chuckling to myself one solitary night.
Hideous, isn’t it?!
To Progress!
Have you tried attaching your phone to your laptop? My phone service data provider allows me to use my iPhone as a personal hotspot. If you have unlimited data, it’s a wonderful thing. If you don’t, you can write / edit offline, connect, then copy and paste to WordPress.
Good advice ( if I could understand a word you are saying ).
Apple explains it best:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204023
Basically, your iPhone becomes your personal internet service provider. Just follow the steps to set it up first and then, once done, you can connect to the Internet using your laptop by connecting to your iPhone either wirelessly, via Bluetooth or by connecting your laptop to your iPhone using the Lightning / USB cable (the removable cord attached to the plug adapter). My cell phone carrier is Verizon and my data plan allows me to use my iPhone as such.
I’ll hand this over to Duncan next time he comes- unfortunately he needs our laptop right now for the finishing touches and subtitles on the film.
yes – do this! it is easier than it sounds. I have done this!!!
Sounds like some aspects of your daily existence suck right now. I’m sorry that they do. I hope you might find a way to see your choice in having both knees done at the same time as the right choice based on your own wisdom and self-knowledge. There was, as you had described, a lot of torment going into it, a fair bit of mental anguish in the anticipation and the related fear. You don’t have to repeat that, and it might have been even worse the second time around.
I mention this because Ric had one leg (re-routing the large artery) done in March and is having the the other done next month. It’s just served to double (repeat) the pre-op agro and angst. Perhaps more so, because he knows exactly what he’s in for in terms of post-op pain and the sheer crumminess of being in the hospital. For various reasons, it was the best choice medically, but there has been that significant trade-off for sure.
The parallels might not be identical, but there it is, for what it might be worth.
Not fun to see the 95% have their freedom so quickly. Quick math says you’ll be in far, far more than twice as long?! Argh. A bit on the frustrating side. To say the least. Anyway, sending you the very best wishes.
This deeply correct and intuitive advice ( though I feel very much for Ric ), is the very very best thing I could be reading right now and I truly thank you for it . xxx
I’m delighted it has helped a bit.
A lot.
Thank god for human minds that understand each other!
I love the Black Narcissi.
Could you try a dictaphone? You can get some that plug into the computer and transcribe what you’ve just said; that way you get a double record and you can edit it later. Sorry to hear it’s tough-going. Keep raging through it; you’ll get there. I think it’s quite common to get really angry when you’re heading for the third week into recuperation. It’s the body and mind reclsiming its adrenalin. Keep expressing the rage and it’ll pass. It means you’re nearly ready to go home. Not long now x
I hate The sound of my own voice.
The Madonna Top 50 was a happy distraction though yesterday. I’m in the mood for the apparent banality of lists ( which actually are like very stimulating, pondering, wondering time travel for the mind).
As Robin says above, the whole two legs or one is the problem. And the suppression of claustrophobia. When I wheelchaired past the brightly lit ward rooms last night with each bed curtained up like the satanic crib in Rosemary’s Baby, each patient lying there motionless and breathing silently, I began to feel my throat closing over again even though I had the ‘sanctuary’ of my own room to return to ( thank god for open windows and lamps from home: their lights would drive me to suicide).
I think what you say though about adrenaline is right though. And not being able to use it sufficiently. I’ve been in here four weeks now! No wonder I’m getting a bit ratty.
At least your sense of humor is still intact. Even though it had to be traumatic to have both knees done at the same time, I think that once you are close to full recovery you will be happy with your decision and hopefully in a couple of months this will all be a blurred memory. I can understand how frustrating it is to type anything long and detailed on an iPhone or any phone, having had the same result you had more than once. I now try to limit the length of anything I write on my phone. Something I do when I am in a bad situation is keep repeating to myself “this too shall pass”. It kind of works for me. Wishing you a successful recovery.
Thanks Filomena.
That day in particular, when I had been in the finest writer’s trance the entire day only to see it all extinguished at the touch of a button, was so internal organ-compressingly infuriating that it obliterated all desire to do anything for a few days and I became as apathetic as a used mop.
There is of course the fact that I am the only foreigner in a 100% Japanese environment. A lot of me thrills to the total immersion of this : it is an indelible experience and I have nothing but praise for the hospital- but at the same time it can be a bit wearing. I yearn for some filthy raucous humour or just some delicious cheddar cheese and baguette. The food is high quality and very nutritionally balanced but it is still beginning to SICKEN me. I find myself dreading mealtimes.
I can feel your frustration but at least your sense of humour is intact.
If that went that would really be the end!
Surely you’ve been through enough to reward yourself with your own laptop! Don’t know how you can bear to share one anyway. Go for it – writing in the way you normally do will make you feel more normal. You might even be able to find some filthy raucous humour on t’internet…
I know!
D is using both the main computer and the laptop; with two iPhones in the house as well that’s usually more than sufficient. Any more and I would feel like Jason Bourne.
You are right though and know me well: creativity = happiness; otherwise I just turn into a poisoned slug.
How frustrating – pen and paper and then type it up if you want to? At least that way you can’t lose it for good. Hope walking is easier soon. Do you have an expected time for discharge or does it depend on progress? Love the picture…
Me too. The sad and lonely must find their own entertainment and this made my evening it was so funny yet unsettling.
And yes- PAPER! I should return to the old ways you are right.
As for when I am to be let out.. in theory within two weeks. I can hardly imagine it now : I have become semi-institutionalized!
I like your way,my sentiments to a tee! So glad to have made your acquaintance !
Nice to meet you too!
( I don’t always look like this )
Poor you! I do wish there was more we could do to cheer you up.How long before they will release you? or does this depend on physio progress?
sending Welsh cwtches. Sam x
No I have cheered up already a bit actually. Just putting this up helped.
As you say, everything depends on the physio, which is going relatively well: I just hate looking and feeling either like a giant adult baby in my ‘stroller’ or else a mangled ancient taking ‘steps’ with such pathetic trepidation..
I want to walk.
NOW !!!!
Aww, you remind me of my son when he was 12 months old. He fell over many times but he got the hang of it. Hope you do it without all the falling over. xx
I think writing on paper would be a good solution- then you could take an iPhone photo of it and post it here. Like letters to us, your readers. I feel selfish writing that because we should be sending letters to you
When are you going to be released? I hope soon. Despite the hardships, you seem to be getting on quite well. I have been watching a lot of BBC series lately, and it seems that an overriding trait of most of the characters is a resilience that pushes them to face the day. Oh, how the nurses on “Call the Midwife” inspire me. And don’t get me started on the detectives on “Broadchurch.” I’m a serious fanboy, planning a trip to Dorset. I have needed the diversion from all these series because I’m getting clean. Cold turkey is the only way for me. It’s hard. But I rewarded myself with a flea market bottle of Yvresse. It’s so unlike me, which is exactly why I bought it. It reminded me of Olivia De Havilland. She said the reason she decided to live in Paris is because everything smelled of champagne and roses.
Anyway, I hope you can find the resilience inside of you.
It sounds like you need it more than me, David : good luck ( love the irony of battling an addiction with a perfume called drunkenness by the way, but I can imagine that once you get past the sugar neon lychees there is enough decadent chypre goodness to sweeten your days).
I hope you know what you are doing and that going cold turkey is not dangerous. Be strong but not too reckless! Dorset would be a good place to retreat though. Beautiful lush and green and somehow apart from everywhere else.
Good luck! And don’t do it alone. X
I was in hospital recently.only for a short time but I know exactly how you feel.. once the novelty of being waited on hand and foot and having no mundane daily domestic chores to do wears off it all becomes very tedious. The first meal I had in there was delicious after that the meals were all down hill and dont get me started on the cups of tea.. one trolley lady even gave it to me with the teabag still in it .. and the disgusting cheap coffee. then there is all the ward politics that start to become evident.. can you get out for wee breaks? After a few days I was allowed out in the day time for a couple of hours morning and afternoon.. it made all the difference…. . having meals bought in or sent in might help… there must be some place around there that would do that .. one day you will look back on this experience fondly In the meantime practice Gratitude.. every day think of three things to be grateful for.. I saw on the telly last night that this practice has turned many lost lives around..lots of love and healing best wishes from NZ.. are you raking extra vitamin C to speed the healing process up???
Hi Jenny
I actually do feel very grateful for many things and am much more of a natural slob than you so am not actually bored. It’s been four weeks now though so obviously I have the off day. If I didn’t have a private room, earplugs, and sleeping pills, the possibility of murder might arise, but I do so it’s ok.
I was being a bit tongue in cheek with that comment! The practice of gratitude seems to be the latest feel good craze. Some people in that TV article had had the most dreadful things happen to them and had sunk to the pits of despair They were lifted out of that state by practising gratitude every day. It seems like such an easy thing to do and so easy to forget how much we have to be grateful for.
I must admit that although being grateful for what you have is important, when it becomes a craze like that my skeptical antennae start wiggling about furiously
OK – I know you are suffering but your blog post is hilarious. Sorry to laugh. Your predicament sounds unendurable to me. Not moving with crappy food. Damn. And you cannot write your blog. Double damn. It is not so difficult to use your phone as a hot spot. Or whatever it is called. I have managed this myself. I hope you can try that at least. I barely know you but I sincerely feel your predicament. Are you able to enjoy your Shalimar? I love the pic though I did not get the manray, but now you point it out – thumbs way up. Try to get some glutathione in you to heal the mitochondria!
Tell me more: never heard of that (and I do write to entertain !)
Of the Glutathione? Also I heard of remarkable recovery with electromagnetic field pulsation. I bet you can find that in Japan!
I first heard of glutathione from Dave Asprey who is a high performance guru type. Do you know of him? He has a podcast and blog and sells products. And he has several books, his newest is all about mitochondria. I am not scientifically literate enough to explain it. But I can understand the explanations which seem quite sound. But you can also get glutathione on Amazon for cheaper. If you try it, get the glutathione which dissolves in your mouth. That and maybe vitamin D and vitamin K2 might be helpful… Dave Asprey’s podcast is Bulletproof Radio. He interviews all the cutting edge healing people.
I love your entertaining style!
Goodness, the trials and tribulations you are going through. I am so sorry that your IPhone is acting up, that would have me just too frustrated to think straight. I am surprised to read you are to be leaving hospital in roughly two weeks, will you be mobile enough to be home? I do hope you will be writing again soon, I do enjoy the way you carry me along with your musings.
Wishing you all the best and glad to hear you are making progress in your recovery.
Thanks for your continued support and glad that you understand the sheer fury that not being able to use my phone engenders.
Yes, it will be two weeks or possibly a bit longer I think..